Converting q3dm maps to CTF...

[CZghost]

I'd like to turn q3dm2 in CTF, but I miss some points to catch on. I need to have the map mirrored entirely but center area. I have already got the "source" map in Radiant, now I must realign textures to avoid misalignment (I have decompiled BSP with q3map2: having source models installed and connected by misc_model entity). I wonder about few points to catch on:

Where the center area would be supposed?
Propably one of the most important points. I wonder about the Plasmagun area, RL room or bridge being center.

I think the Plasmagun outdoors area would be the best.
- Positive: It looks nice to have two castles opposing to each other and outside area connecting these castles between.
- Negative: Keeping the desing unchanged as much as possible with this solution is pretty impressive.

Next solution, bridge over water area: Such bases are inside single castle, but connecting bases with bridge has been done in other CTF maps as well...
- Positive: Solution rendered in number of maps by various authors
- Negative: Compared to original map design it's not much smart as others would thought

The last option is to have RL area as the center.
- Positive: In combination of having flags where Haste spawns by default it would allow for quick captures.
- Negative: The design of that area fits more flag base than a center area.

Where the bases should be?
The most important point ever. Where the Haste spawns in DM, the flags would spawn in CTF. Or make flag bases where RL spawns in DM?

RL indoors area fits few base needs: It's isolated from all other areas by doors, the theme of that area fits the vadrigar base overlook, protection pillars. There's missing the most important need: base protection level.

Where the Haste spawns in DM, flags would be placed in CTF.
- Positive: It's possible to easily reach a capture.
- Negative: Worse protection level.

The next option would be place flags in the water area.
- Positive: Better protection level.
- Negative: Worse reachability.

The worst, but possible solution would be placing flags in outside area where the Plasmagun spawns by default.

How to symmetry the map?
I wonder between classic mirror symmetry or less used origin symmetry. Textures will appear entirely unchanged but the trims at bases. I must also add flags to tell player which base he has entered.

Mirroring the map:
- Positive: Having the map mirrored gives some variety in design.
- Negative: Mirroring gives the map standardised mass design, which is negative for map authors

Rotating the map:
- Positive: Less used option, gives the map Threewave feel.
- Negative: Bases look entirely identicaly.

The next solution would be make fake symmetry (add more variety to the design).
- Positive: Each base will look a bit different to each other.
- Negative: The symmetry gets quite wretched.

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Any idea to how perform success conversion of DM to CTF?

[themuffinman]

Woah, slow down there broseph. You first need a clever name for the map before you can start working on it...

[Eraser]

[Theftbot]

CZdoodad

[MKJ]

is this before or after you've finished the shader editor?

[Eraser]

First he has to finish his low poly car model, his CTF map that has no name, his ambitious Team Arena terrain map, his cze3dm1 map (for which there was an alpha but not really), his MSG competition #5 map, his MSG competition #4 map, his small spaceship dm map, his Quake Live map, not to forget his epic EntityPlus map, his other EntityPlus map, making his own player skins, running his own CPMA server, translating Q3W to czech, finding the proximity mine launcher in Distant Screams (a true dilemma), wrapping up his "big time" project "Russia Cyrylic" (where he's letting everyone else do the work but at least did the most important thing himself: come up with a name), wrap up sounds and models for his map Fourteen Souls (awesome name!) and then hope he has time for all this in-between bouts of modding his forum that's filled to the brim with highly active users.

[CZghost]

I though obs, puff and muffin are so much ironical to such things...

First he has to finish his low poly car model

Low-poly car model isn't relevant for this topic.

wrapping up his "big time" project "Russia Cyrylic"

I forgot about that and won't return back. If you have time, you can delete linked topic...

is this before or after you've finished the shader editor?

Shader Editor isn't relevant for this topic.

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Look, I can read ton of text in a free while, but it's usualy a book or a magazine. I pretty get lost in tons of your ironical mentions and I really don't need to read them. Seriously, I haven't found any useful answer in your tons of text which has no mean.

[themuffinman]

Talk about missing the point...

[CZghost]

I tried it, but you try finding spots absolutely unrelated to this topic just for parode me instead of giving an advice...

[themuffinman]

I think you need to take Eraser's last comment, stick it in Google translate into Glorious Republic of Czech language, and read it nice and carefully to understand the (very valid... nay, fundamental) point he's making here. Then you'll understand why every new thread you make these days has the tendency to bomb out like this has.

[KittenIgnition]

He reminds me of me, though I think my projects are a lot cooler

[tehSandwich]

CZGhost, Eraser's point is that you share a lot of big ideas and epic projects, with loads of details but without any infrastructure, and you never act on them. You think big instead of small and from the top instead of the bottom. In the end, you only have two projects that I know of that are done and one of those is a port. All I can suggest is to think small and act on those ideas instead of posting all of those big projects.

[Eraser]

There was once a boy who was the son of a shepherd. One day, his father asked the boy to keep an eye on the sheep and warn him if the boy spotted a wolf. The boy promised to take good care of the sheep and shout if he spotted a wolf.

Hours passed and nothing happened. No wolves appeared and the sheep were minding their own business. The boy got a bit bored and just to get some excitement into the day, he shouted "Wolf! Wolf! There's a wolf!" His father and some other men from the village came running towards the boy and the herd, their hunting rifles at the ready to shoot the wolf. There was no wolf, however, and the boy's father said the boy shouldn't shout "wolf" if there wasn't a wolf. The boy promised his father not to do it again.

Not long after that though, the boy got bored again and started shouting "Wolf! Wolf!" again. Once more his father and the other villagers came running to the field but again, there was no wolf. His father was seriously angry this time and told the boy that if he did this one more time, he'd be in serious trouble.

Not long after his father went away, a real wolf suddenly appeared. The boy shouted "Wolf! Wolf!" as loud as he could, but no one came. He shouted again but still, no one came to help him. The boy could do nothing but climb a tree and hide while the wolf was attacking and killing the sheep.

Why was no one coming to help the boy? Well, he shouted "Wolf!" just one time to many without there actually being a wolf, so the last time the boy shouted, his father and the villagers assumed it was yet another false alarm and didn't think it was worth spending their time and effort to run into yet another prank from the boy.


Just saying, CZGhost, there's a lesson to be learned here.

[CZghost]

Yeah, I know something similar to this story and I understand it.

People are not perfect, they forget, they sometimes haven't enough time to do such things.
Although, people are growing, learning, and I must say it was realy dumb to take such great projects when I had no time to get involved for putting them in practice.

I quit all of these projects (except for the last announced EP map, it's still in progress) for having no time for putting them in practice. So now I say, I will announce only projects, which I'm close to have a time for getting involved with making them real or it's alerady done and possibly ready for testing...

This topic is much wider than for q3dm2, I clarified it only for example just as I will start with this (by continuing sst13's DM2CTF map conversions)...

[Ferrao10]

CZGhost,
all the valid points have already been stated.
Really, start out small. I don't know you but I suppose you are a scholar/student? Now is the time in your life when you have free time. Let 10 years pass and you'll have no time at all, anymore.
So start with something and stick with it. Stop being jumpy. I know myself this is very hard. If I had to number all map files I ever had on various hard discs I'd say there were around 4000. Most of them just sketches of doorways or other architectural elements. Some of them made it into alphas and then those alphas were tossed. But, they were quietly tossed.
As for the q3dm2 conversion, I wouldn't attempt it. The map has too little going on vertically to make it a fun CTF map. It could be, but then you would have to invest some of your precious time and build new levels (storeys) and passages. If you are willing to invest time, search the net for Mirix V2, a flipper/rotator frontend and start by answering all your questions yourself.
If you have done that and have come to something that is a presentable alpha, come back here, present it and ask for feedback on flow and item placement.
We are no wizards either.

[CZghost]

@Ferrao10:
In other words you advice me to start planning something small instead of remaking maps? Okay. I can try to make a small DM map from scratch and let players to test it...

My other projects (including q3dm2 conversion and one secret I'm planning out) are suspended this time, I'm a bit lazy to do too much things at once...

[obsidian]

The advice is to start small (doesn't matter if it's a new map or a remake or whatever it is) so that you can actually finish what you're working on.

The whole problem here is that you come up with these projects where you worry about all the details before you actually worry about the basics of your map.

It's like you're trying to write a book, but instead of typing out the contents first, you're fussing over the picture that you want to be on the cover.

[CZghost]

@obs:
I actualy understand it. As I said, I will annouce new map only when playable alpha will be avaible, then testing might run in fast manner getting faster by releasing beta and getting closed by releasing final map... Maybe some release candidates will occur.

I said it was dumb

[Ferrao10]

My advice would even go a bit further than what Obsidian said.
You asked about where to place individual weapons on a picture that hasn't even been painted yet. Who the fuck should now? Go on for yourself! Clip it, flip it, mirror it, place weapons, test it yourself. This board is no Nanny-coven (yeah, I just made up that word, it could make a neat American Horror Story season).

First of all, stop converting but learn to use the editor and paint a picture (from scratch) and finish it. Show us what you are made of and that it is worth giving you advice on the actual craft.

EDIT: And, we don't care about your "one secret" until there is a playable alpha and you shouldn't make a statement about yourself being "a bit lazy", either. Is there a polish/czech forum on which you might be better off?

[CZghost]

First of all, stop converting but learn to use the editor

I am aware of almost every function in editor, but learning some new controls may occur interesting and useful. I created a test level which has been placed in ws archive (Sudden Death). It was created with a heap of tutorial by one czech mapper, which has been forgot since 2000... I'm not sure if he lives yet or not, and if yes, where and how much he is.

paint a picture (from scratch) and finish it.

I don't paint very well and also I have troubles with state which it does mean

Is there a polish/czech forum on which you might be better off?

I'm afraid not. Quake is not so much played game in Czech Republic as many of people are interested in newest Direct-X games or older DOS games like Pacman...

[themuffinman]

Jesus Ghost, how do you explain this shit...
http://ws.q3df.org/map/czg_acc2/

[GONNAFISTYA]

effin lol

The bipolar ADHD is strong in this thread.

[mrd]

The goggles... zey do nothing!

[obsidian]

Well, I guess we all get the point now. Moving on then...