[QL] scdm2 "Roundabout" [alpha] by Scorch_

[Scorch_]

Scdm2 "Roundabout" is a medium size duel map for quakelive taking inspiration from the quakelive map T7 "Furiousheights". With this map I tried build on what I learned from my previous map while also taking it in a different direction using mostly curves instead of angels.







Download

Quake 3 Download
[spoiler]Alright I've ported the map over to q3, it wasn't as hard as I thought it'd be but there are a few issues. The lighting is pretty messed up and the map is way darker then the quakelive version I think it might have something to do with having to use a different sky texture but I'm not sure, I'd recommend using r_mapoverbrightbits 2/3.

I also couldn't find the "TV static/fuzz" texture i was using for the teleporters and had to improvise and lastly this map can't really be played in its current state there is no health/armor/ammo on the map (aside from mega/RA/YA) and theres only one spawn.

Download[/spoiler]
Some things I'd like feedback on:

• Overall layout
• Map flow
• Map balance
• Major item placement (RA/Mega/YA)
• Weapon placement (This one is low priority since the weapon locations are likely to change.)

Notes

• I'm not particularly happy with the mega room I feel like the area between the pillars and the mega is to spacious and while I do like the mega platform I think its a tad to exposed and could be worked better into the room.
• The current textures are temporary and while I've not decided on a theme for the map yet I'm most likely going to use the standard quake 3 gothic theme.
• Lighting and the ceiling are also temporary and will be revised in later versions.
• I think the YA to RA connector room (where the lg currently is) is a bit dull and could maybe be slimed down some or made more interesting.
• My goal with the pillars in the RA room was to give someone on the upper level quicker access to the RA without having to drop down or go around through lg room and vice versa, the trade off to this is the jumps are supposed to be some what tricky but right now they are pretty easy.
• While both teleporters are temporary the final versions will probably stick to the cylindrical design.

[CZghost]

You did not mention: Is it for Quake 3 or Quake Live? From Simpleitems icons I think it's quakelive map. Just minor info before ppl decide to download...

[Scorch_]

Sorry about that, this map is for quakelive and I've changed the original post to reflect that as well.

[Theftbot]

why not make a q3 ver. too

[AndehX]

yeah i'd prefer a Q3 version, then i'd be able to play it online with a friend.

[Scorch_]

why not make a q3 ver. too

I'm honestly not even sure how to go about that since all the tutorials I read when setting up radiant were for quakelive but if porting the map over to quake 3 is simple enough its definitely something I could do. In the mean time however an alternative to using quakelive to test the map would be wolfcam if you have that installed.

[AndehX]

It's very simple. Just install Q3 and setup a seperate radiant install for it. Then its literally as simple as opening the .map file in Q3's radiant, and replacing all the textures in the map with Q3 textures.

[Scorch_]

Alright I've ported the map over to q3, it wasn't as hard as I thought it'd be but there are a few issues. The lighting is pretty messed up and the map is way darker then the quakelive version I think it might have something to do with having to use a different sky texture but I'm not sure, I'd recommend using r_mapoverbrightbits 2/3.

I also couldn't find the "TV static/fuzz" texture i was using for the teleporters and had to improvise and lastly this map can't really be played in its current state there is no health/armor/ammo on the map (aside from mega/RA/YA) and theres only one spawn.

Download

[CZghost]

[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/Testing/scdm2v007q3/shot0001.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/Testing/scdm2v007q3/shot0002.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/Testing/scdm2v007q3/shot0003.jpg[/lvlshot]

Do not box maps in large sky hull, it's not recommended. I'd remove these features that normal player won't ever notice (the ones on screenshots) and seal whole map of void. Make sky brushes only where it is neccesary (typical outside areas on top of the walls)... It is bad practic to box leaked map with sky texture...

[Scorch_]

The objects outside of the playable area and the large sky box are there because the map is still in the early stages of development and subject to change, its much easier to move a brush outside the playable area when testing a few different designs then it is to delete it and remake. Same thing goes for the sky box trying to seal the map off at this stage is a time sink when changes to the structure of the map are frequent. Once the map has been finalized and changes become less frequent I will remove the unused objects and seal off the map proper.

[AndehX]

Yeah, I do this alot when in early development stages. I dont bother sealing the map properly until the map is basically finished.

[AndyW]

I also used skyboxes alot to seal unfinished stuff for testing, but to me now it seems better to do it the "right" way.
(Or maybe what i think is the right way) Sometimes its like "pain in the Ash" fiddeling around many small brushes to get some stuff "sealed" but it results in a nice "structure" of the map and even make changes easier to me.
First thing to do when a compile "leaked" is to fix the error! If your Arm is broken would you just put a plastic-bag around it?

[AndyW]

Hopped around a few times, nice curves!
What i dont like:
- broken/curved stairs on teleporter-exit
- stairs to MH spot (if you will run those stairs in "RL" you will almost end in an hospital)
- the 4 pillars maybe need some replacement to really jump around (try just 2 or 3, somtimes less is more) ;D
- get rid of the shader upon YA (The Hole). I think it would be nice to the gameflow, maybe move the RG to another spot.

[Pat Howard]

good stuff, scorch. i'd say it's an improvement over your last map already.

i'm a little worried about the top paths being overpowered. although you mitigated it by forcing the player to make a lot of jumps on the top path your map still technically has a "top loop". a top loop is what i call a high level that never forces the player to drop down anywhere. in other words, it's when a player can run from room to room using just the top level. i try to have at least one dead end on my top levels to keep this from happening.

for more on this topic, i wrote an article about the relationship between height and path continuity here. maybe the diagrams will help you understand what i mean.

i also thought the MH stairs were awkward, though i thought the RA placement was kinda neat.

keep it up!

[CZghost]

Oh, also I forgot to mention. The lava pit where there are pillar supports to walk on, there are nonsolid sidewalks. When trying to hide against rocket you will fall through the sidewalk in the lava! That looks silly, if you meant that for risky place, make it open to the lava instead, otherwise it's a bug that needs fixing...

[Scorch_]

Thanks for all the feed back so far I tried to implement as much as I could in this new version.

Download

Change log:

• Completely redesigned mega room. 1 2 3
• Removed two pillars from RA room. 1
• Added a gate to the door leading from the deck in RA room to LG room. 1
• Fixed the nonsolid floors in the RA to mega connector tunnel.
• Swapped the Rail with the Rockets at the top of mega jump pad.

Notes:

i'm a little worried about the top paths being overpowered. although you mitigated it by forcing the player to make a lot of jumps on the top path your map still technically has a "top loop". a top loop is what i call a high level that never forces the player to drop down anywhere. in other words, it's when a player can run from room to room using just the top level. i try to have at least one dead end on my top levels to keep this from happening.

I definitely agree with the "top loop" thing you mentioned, my original intention was to have it be like the quakelive map "Furious heights" where your able to quickly and easily move around the map on the top level but have to put yourself in a vulnerable position to get any of the items aside from some health and an LG. I think in my case though I may have overdone it with with the height so in this new build I tried adding a gate to the door leading from the the RA deck to the LG room which means in order to make a full loop you'd have to cross the pillars in RA room and go through LG room. Another option would be putting the gate on the upper YA to LG room door this would completely destroy the loop rather then lengthen it but I'd then have to move the lg back up top since the upper portion of that room wouldn't really serve a purpose.

The stairs leading to mega I agree are a bit off but I'm really sure how to go about fixing them, in this build I tried to widen them a bit let me know if it helps any also if your testing the map in q3 or wolfcam it might be a bit odd since I don't think either of those has the "smooth stairs" quake live has.

[AndehX]

could you release a Q3 version too please?

[Scorch_]

could you release a Q3 version too please?

Download

Here you go I forgot to port it over, will try and get them both out at the same time for the next build.

[Pat Howard]

I definitely agree with the "top loop" thing you mentioned, my original intention was to have it be like the quakelive map "Furious heights"

ahh, furious heights. that map is kind of an enigma to me. it seems like the upper level should be way overpowered, but based on the amount of pro play the map has gotten it seems to be balanced. (i don't know, personally. i don't play furious heights because i am not a quake live player.) but it seems like the top-loop effect is mitigated by a few things:

-number of stairs, jumps, and choke points on the top level which break up continuity
-top path actually loops out and behind the low YA making it inefficient to approach the item that way
-MH and RA atriums are almost directly connected by the small junction on the low level which makes the low level very efficient
-3 of the 4 armors are placed low

it's always fun to see how maps get away with breaking the rules!

i just ran around your map again and i think cutting off the top path with that gate helped a lot. my only gripe right now is the scale seems small in the atriums. it's hard to run around the map smoothly at max speed, i often feel forced to take little half-jumps to not fall off the top level.

i have one other big piece of feedback that you might not want to take for this map, but it could be something to keep in mind for a future project. you have some neat hallways in this map, e.g. the GL and LG halls, but if you look at your top and bottom paths from a bird's eye view, maybe blurring your eyes a little, you'll see they are both circles. the paths also never really intersect with each other. while this may be the most straight-forward way to connect your map, it's also not the most interesting. my map "goldleaf" has the same problem on the low level. i've been thinking a lot lately about connectivity - not only in terms of the quantity of connections, but also the quality of them. maybe i will write an article about this in the future, i am still kind of researching it.

if you look at all the classic maps, you will notice that they all have complex junctions connecting their rooms. sure, each atrium plays well on its own, but it's the way that the atriums are woven together that really takes the gameplay to the next level. great maps often have very serpentine junctions that allow players to move through them in many different ways. Toxicity is an obvious example. its low path is like a loop with two branches off of it leading to the RA and MH rooms. this results in the high YA room being nicely connected to both while the MH and RA room are slightly more isolated.

today when i went back to analyze my new map "trespass" like this i realized it has a pretty unique low path layout which i'd describe as a jughandle shape. i haven't seen that kind of path in many maps before which might explain why people are enamored by its connectivity. there really are quite a few possibilities when it comes to path layouts, (e.g. figure-8, U, L, S, circle, cross) and each of these can get even more complex by adding branches off of them or elevation changes which connect them to other levels. basically, i think this is a very important concept and i'd recommend you start thinking about your junctions as the "4th room" in your map rather than just a means for connecting the three atriums.

hope that helps. if i'm not making any sense just ignore me

[Pat Howard]

p.s. dismemberment is another map that has a top path which covers pretty much the entire map and never forces the player to drop down. i noticed it uses a lot of the same tricks as furious heights to make this work including lots of choke points, forced jumps, stairs for reducing player speed, and a direct junction between the MH and RA rooms on the low level.