A conversation with a great Q4 pro player on MSN

[Tormentius]

Not only that but I can get playable frames, I just want it to be a shade better. I am not asking for it to run at 125fps on my p3 500. I am asking for the option of turning off the dynamic shadows, I wont even call it dynamic lighting. The only thing that is really lacking in my tower is the old geforce 3, other then that I have a 3gig p4, and 1gig of ram, more then enough to play the game, but that isnt the point. The point is enjoying the game.

You're playing on a GF3. That type of dated hardware and the unrealistic expectation for it to work on the latest software is exactly what I've been getting at this entire thread. If you want to "enjoy" the game then step up and upgrade.

As for your tourney point, check out Drums quotes at the beginning of the thread to see that not all of the good players use incredibly tweaked settings.

[bikkeldesnikkel]

there aren't much shadows in q4 mp that contribute to gameplay (haven't seen any so far), moreover i dont think it gives a real advantage unless you're a pro playing against pro's. so why keep the game restricted and force people to buy hw

[Tormentius]

EDIT: Ah the whole way it was designed to be played argument. Answer me this, if the game was even less tweakable now and you were stuck with 15 fps unless you had the standard 3gig proc/1gig ram/128meg card, how many people would return the game as unplayble? How much money would Raven/id make? Enough to justify a new game? Support? I doubt it.

And define lowest rung for me? :icon29:

EDIT x 2!: And how many people are getting squeezed into console gaming because of the new cost of a game? $60 sounds great until you add in the $200 gfx card $100 sound card, and $250 proc. And even then your getting slow downs at your precious max settings...

The only people that would return it if requirements were higher are those of them too bloody stupid to read the bottom of the box when making their purchase in the first place.

You're right on your second edit though. If a person doesn't have enough cash to upgrade (as many don't), then consoles are a great alternative.

[bikkeldesnikkel]

As for your tourney point, check out Drums quotes at the beginning of the thread to see that not all of the good players use incredibly tweaked settings.

which means that tweaking your settings doesn't matter THAT much, even in a pro environment. so how much would it lessen the gameplay in a normal one. none if you ask me

[jester!]

You're playing on a GF3. That type of dated hardware and the unrealistic expectation for it to work on the latest software is exactly what I've been getting at this entire thread. If you want to "enjoy" the game then step up and upgrade.

As for your tourney point, check out Drums quotes at the beginning of the thread to see that not all of the good players use incredibly tweaked settings.

I never once expected it to be able to push this game to fantastic settings, I hoped that I would be able to get playable frames until I could manage to upgrade the card, and I can. I still do not feel that is a reason to force people who will not be able to manage the cost of a new card to play with shit frames if they even continue to play at all. And that is my point.

If its easy to cater everyone why not do it? If you dont you miss out on lost revenue, a loss of player base, and then a loss of extended sales.

The loss of player base is the worst thing because then the game doesnt last as long in the grand scheme of things, D3 and PK, and your out $60 with nobody to play with in a year...[/i]

[Tormentius]

As for your tourney point, check out Drums quotes at the beginning of the thread to see that not all of the good players use incredibly tweaked settings.

which means that tweaking your settings doesn't matter THAT much, even in a pro environment. so how much would it lessen the gameplay in a normal one. none if you ask me

The goal of the game development industry isn't to cater to peoples whiny opinions; its to make money. If new games push the limits of new hardware both industries see more profits. This isn't a charity, its a business.

[bikkeldesnikkel]

As for your tourney point, check out Drums quotes at the beginning of the thread to see that not all of the good players use incredibly tweaked settings.

which means that tweaking your settings doesn't matter THAT much, even in a pro environment. so how much would it lessen the gameplay in a normal one. none if you ask me

The goal of the game development industry isn't to cater to peoples whiny opinions; its to make money. If new games push the limits of new hardware both industries see more profits. This isn't a charity, its a business.

i don't have anything to do with that. but to go against that point, it's more profitable to dumb down the settings, because you would get more sales because of it. the people who can afford to upgrade their hw will do that, because it says so on the package. if there were to be a PR now, they wouldn't even notice and still upgrade.

so, for the business, it would be better to be able to dumb down the settings.

[DRuM]

I like pie

[jester!]

I like pie

Ah but what kind of pie? And can you tweak it?

[bikkeldesnikkel]

I like pie

Ah but what kind of pie? And can you tweak it?

I bought one, but it is with crust. I don't like crust, i want it off, someone know how? I tried but it seems to be protected in some way, i can get it off but when i try to eat it, it suddenly pops on again gdammit

[jester!]

I like pie

Ah but what kind of pie? And can you tweak it?

I bought one, but it is with crust. I don't like crust, i want it off, someone know how? I tried but it seems to be protected in some way, i can get it off but when i try to eat it, it suddenly pops on again gdammit

Wait till the chef releases the knife, then we all get what we want!

//this line has to stop now

[DRuM]

I like pie

Ah but what kind of pie? And can you tweak it?

It's a pie I usually take with me on picnics.
I tweak it and call it picnic 5.

Badaboom *Tssh!*

[NitrousFlare]

if i was paul..i wouldn't really like my whole conversation to be posted on an internet forum.

[DRuM]

if i was paul..i wouldn't really like my whole conversation to be posted on an internet forum.

Why, are you paul? Whike you're no doubt right, I don't think paul takes the internet too seriously, and I didn't post anything that puts him in a bad light.

[NitrousFlare]

if i was paul..i wouldn't really like my whole conversation to be posted on an internet forum.

Why, are you paul? Whike you're no doubt right, I don't think paul takes the internet too seriously, and I didn't post anything that puts him in a bad light.

i wasn't saying that like "god drum, your fucking moron" i was saying it like "man, i hope drum didn't post anything he wasn't supposed to"

lol, dont take it personally

[DRuM]

[NitrousFlare]

what's your sig mean, i don't get it

[jester!]

Its from a music video whos band the name of which escapes me...Radiohead?

[bikkeldesnikkel]

no it's from the boyband five

[axbaby]

i remember playing that free Army game and flicking my flashlight on in dark rooms and constantly getting killed.
i was no fun whatsoever because everyone else had the gamma cranked and could see everything in the dark.

if it's a console command then it's fair game ..fuck reality ..it's quake after all

[Riptide]

As for your tourney point, check out Drums quotes at the beginning of the thread to see that not all of the good players use incredibly tweaked settings.

which means that tweaking your settings doesn't matter THAT much, even in a pro environment. so how much would it lessen the gameplay in a normal one. none if you ask me

The goal of the game development industry isn't to cater to peoples whiny opinions; its to make money. If new games push the limits of new hardware both industries see more profits. This isn't a charity, its a business.

Right they made it we paid for it and we make the ultimate decision to keep them in business.Now let me point out something your thought on "the way its meant to be played" is complete shit and speculation id knows damn well as well as valve and epic that thier games are going to be tweaked or they wouldnt cater to the mod community they want you to make the product that you want and have thier name on it. I have a 4200-x2 x850 pe 2gigs and I play at 800x600 120hz lowest settings possible not because I have to but because I want to. Get it through your thick head ppl will play the way they want if you enjoy playing with high settings then by all means do it but you have just as much of an option to change the settings as I do. Don't preach that pathetic "the way its meant to be played" because thats just horse shit, most fps games arent even played "out of the box" neways they all use mods.Hell even mmo's give you differant UI's and allow you to mod them and most of those ui's give you an advantage over the non-modded ui's but its not the players fault that the next guy CHOSE not to use a better set up.

[Tormentius]

Right they made it we paid for it and we make the ultimate decision to keep them in business.Now let me point out something your thought on "the way its meant to be played" is complete shit and speculation id knows damn well as well as valve and epic that thier games are going to be tweaked or they wouldnt cater to the mod community they want you to make the product that you want and have thier name on it.

"We" is a pretty comprehensive claim for "you" to make. Speak to your own opinion and don't try to speak for the gaming community at large.

The small segment of competitive gamers isn't, IMO, what keeps these companies in business its the bulk of the casual gamers who do. This debate in this thread isn't about mods being a bad thing, its about a developer restricting a var for what I believe to be good reason.

Get it through your thick head ppl will play the way they want if you enjoy playing with high settings then by all means do it but you have just as much of an option to change the settings as I do.

People will play with the vars they have available. The debate in this thread was over a var which is cheat-protected.
1) Extract head from ass
2) Read
3) Comprehend
4) Post.

Theres some steps to use when posting in the future so you don't come across as quite so clueless.

Don't preach that pathetic "the way its meant to be played" because thats just horse shit, most fps games arent even played "out of the box" neways they all use mods.Hell even mmo's give you differant UI's and allow you to mod them and most of those ui's give you an advantage over the non-modded ui's but its not the players fault that the next guy CHOSE not to use a better set up.

When a developer designs a game they choose what to limit. They did it on Q3, they increased it with Punkbuster, they did it again on Doom3 and they are doing it with Quake 4. They choose to not allow some vars for their own (usually good) reasons.

[Riptide]

"We" is gamers as a whole. So i can speak the truth in regards to that. Nothing I said regarding "We" is even debatable.I said we decide to keep them in business and as far as that goes its the truth.

My arguement about settings wasn't about locked cvars it was about "Light and shadow are part of gameplay IMO. I don't spend my $ on hardware and software to play a game at the lowest settings possible because, IMO again, its pointless."-you "Theres no point in buying a brand new game with the latest graphics engine tweaks in order to make it look like ass."-you

I was just too lazy to go quote everything you said and just quoted the first topic I addressed.You just come off as somebody who pushes his opinions on ppl and discards everything you disagree with.Not to mention you can't even debate without retorting to flames. It makes me think your one of those purists who use "tweaks" as an excuse for your lack of gameplay.(not sure if this is the case as I've never played you or know you) but nonetheless thats the image you portray to me.

I would play etch-a-sketch if thats where the gameplay(I enjoy) and majority competition was.So theres a good reason to play any game.
Your "pointless" comments is subjective and you have nothing but facts going against you. The smoother the game runs NO MATTER YOUR SYSTEM the better you can experience the gameplay.
Another thing is your comment about why should the cater to lower end specs well i dont fall in that bracket but I would have to go with that novel business idea called sales.

[Tormentius]

"We" is gamers as a whole. So i can speak the truth in regards to that. Nothing I said regarding "We" is even debatable.I said we decide to keep them in business and as far as that goes its the truth.

My arguement about settings wasn't about locked cvars it was about "Light and shadow are part of gameplay IMO. I don't spend my $ on hardware and software to play a game at the lowest settings possible because, IMO again, its pointless."-you "Theres no point in buying a brand new game with the latest graphics engine tweaks in order to make it look like ass."-you

I was just too lazy to go quote everything you said and just quoted the first topic I addressed.You just come off as somebody who pushes his opinions on ppl and discards everything you disagree with.Not to mention you can't even debate without retorting to flames. It makes me think your one of those purists who use "tweaks" as an excuse for your lack of gameplay.(not sure if this is the case as I've never played you or know you) but nonetheless thats the image you portray to me.

I would play etch-a-sketch if thats where the gameplay(I enjoy) and majority competition was.So theres a good reason to play any game.
Your "pointless" comments is subjective and you have nothing but facts going against you. The smoother the game runs NO MATTER YOUR SYSTEM the better you can experience the gameplay.

The statements made in those quotes are my opinions centering on the var which was being discussed. The var in question creates a single lightsource for a level and is cheat-protected. The debate was over this var being removed its cheat-protected status and if you had read the thread you would know this :icon27:.

As for discarding opinions I disagree with that isn't quite the case. Its opinions that I find moronic that get discarded.

Edit: To put this in perspective, you don't speak for the gaming community. "You" spent a mere $60 on a game and might purchase another expansion later depending. Your opinion one way or another hardly "keeps them in business"; its the willingness of tens of thousands to make a purchase which does that.

[AmIdYfReAk]

Moreover from torms post, there are atleast 4 topic made on that CVAR, and i My self, have requested from RAven soft that the command should NOT be cheatprotected.