Vertex selection/manipulation - what am I missing?

Post by **unitool** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:21 pm

Working with vertexes in the Q4 editor seems to be such a pain in the ass - I must be doing something wrong. It is so aggravating - when added to the camera controls, it makes me want to smash something!

Even tho I manage to not smash stuff, I usually just give up and close the editor out of frustration. I guess I'm spoiled, because the Radiant I'm used to is effing sweet. I tried GtkRadiant, but it crashes before opening, so no love there.

The main problem (I can learn to live with the camera controls) is that it sometimes takes me a million clicks to finally select a vert for manipulating, and once I finally manage the magic click that actually selects it, I often deselect it with a reflex click before I can stop myself. That can't be the way it is supposed to work, right? I'm doing something wrong?

Thanks for any help!

Post by **Plan B** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:42 pm

Same here, it's a hassle, especially with patches.

I kind of resigned to building caulk stuff in 1.2.13 and loading it into Q4ED :icon26:

I don't think we're 'missing something' but I'd love to hear otherwise.

Post by **obsidian** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:31 pm

This thread has a distinctive "old skool" feel to it. Nice to see you guys around.

Same as Plan B, here. I've been building a lot of the more complicated brushes in GtkRadiant 1.4.0 and then texturing and lighting in Q4Edit.

Too bad Q4Edit was based off the older, less intuitive QeRadiant builds rather than the much loved GtkRadiant.

What errors are you getting in GtkRadiant? I suppose you are using 1.5?

Post by **unitool** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:42 pm

I'm using GtkR 1.5.0, it looks like. All I get is a Windows error message and a log file I can't find.

Is this the same editor they used to make Q4? I'm pretty much ready to give up on this and go back to Zelda and enjoy my time off.

hmmm....I guess I'll try a different GtkR....I guess I want the Raven version?

Post by **obsidian** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:21 pm

1.5.0 has a known issue where GTK2 will cause a crash because of Windows bitmap fonts. See here for solution:
http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/files/ra ... /bugs.html

Raven used Q4Edit to create the game, it's actually part of the Quake4.exe that you should obviously already have. You just need to create a shortcut to it with some extra command switches. See the Q4 Mapping FAQ sticky thread for details.

1.4.0 is still my favourite build out of all the Radiant families.

Post by **unitool** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:47 pm

ooh, thanks....I see the thing there about the multi-monitor issue. I'll try that next. I installed 1.4.0, but it doesn't seem to support Q4 right out of the box.

Post by **obsidian** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:58 pm

Yes, 1.4.0 does not support Q4. But as mentioned above you can create your brushes textured with caulk. Then import the map into Q4Edit to do textures, lighting and entities (thereby bypassing any quirks with camera controls and vertex manipulation).

1.4.0 will be more in tune with what you are used to for brushwork. Q4Edit is very different, but necessary for later stages of getting a working Q4 map.

Post by **unitool** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:05 pm

it looks like GtkR 1.5.0 is out for me, so it'll be the same thing for me - back and forth between the two editors, or maybe just playing Zelda......

I would have killed someone out of sheer frustration before I was able to finish a Q4 map using Q4Edit. I hate editors that waste time, and Q4Edit seems to be really backwards in a lot of ways.

Props to the designers at Raven. Not only do they posess mad skills, they are apparently very patient as well.

Post by **corsair** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:55 am

I faced the same frustrations, but I'm now convinced that q4edit really
isn't a step backwards, it's just different.
It might require a dual monitor setup like I have though :]

Post by **unitool** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:00 am

hehe....I guess I'm just spoiled. It was a lot easier and less agravating after I decided to stop working on the patches for now. I think my main annoyance is that it just seems really difficult to do anything with a vert in the 3D window, which seems odd for a 3D editor.

I still think I might be doing it wrong.

Post by **corsair** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:05 am

its always been better to stay away from the verts
when you could - a way to avoid it is with edge
manipulation and the clipper, just like skew and
clipper can substitute vert editing too.

good luck anyway! time for a nap ;]

Post by **unitool** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:20 am

actually, this is all vert manipulation for patches - I have a bunch of them, and they're not standard shapes. It's a mess to look at and a mess to work with.

Post by **corsair** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:03 pm

Are you somewhere on irc or do you have msn?
it's really easy how it works, like everything is
when you know how to ;], I can show you in 5
to 10 minutes I'm sure.

Post by **unitool** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:54 pm

Forgot to say thanks for the offer, but I don't want to be a pest. I'll look thru all the tutorial links and see if I can find any that address the 3D window or other subjects that may help me be a happy mapper.

Maybe it's a horsepower thing? Even tho I can work on much more complex stuff from work on this same pc here at home, Q4Edit really seems to choke when I am trying to move verts. Even when I have a region of just a few simple bevels and simple patch meshes, the whole thing lags when I start moving verts. I'm trying so hard to be careful that I hold the mouse in a deathgrip of precision, which not good for my right hand.

My pc is not exactly a powerhouse, but like I said, I was able to edit stuff from work, so it's at least capable.

I have a P4 3.0 and a gig of ram with an X800Pro vid card with 256 megs of ram. Like I said, not rocking by any means, but I should be able to manipulate the hell out of a tiny region of 15 simple patches.

Maybe this new contest is actually a cleverly disguised pre-employment screening presented in the guise of a contest, and the real test is whether or not you can perservere to the and and also make something nice without smashing your computer in frustration? Everyone that enters should get a free mouse with the registration. I'm just saying....it might come in handy.

Post by **krekits** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:16 pm

obsidian wrote:This thread has a distinctive "old skool" feel to it. Nice to see you guys around.

Can't contribute to anything these days (been ages since i touched any editor) but thought I'd drop in and actually post something, instead of just reading stuff.

Post by **Scourge** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:23 pm

I mostly just read myself these days as well. :icon30:

Post by **obsidian** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:17 pm

OMG! You guys are still alive and lurking!

I haven't done anything serious in the editor as well. But I am starting to feel that mapping bug twitching. In fact, I've been working on some high quality normal map textures.