Quake III Arena: Single player mode

[ShadoW_86]

Hi guys. I bet you are wondering what does that topic title mean at all. So as we all know, Sock released his 'sp level' which is great, but lets be honest, it is missing something. Hordes of montsers to kill . I also bet, that most of you always wanted te get full Quaake 3 sp mode, and me too. I bet many people was trying to make a sp mods (I know about two), but in the end nothing serious came from it.

I would like to poen public debate, why there was never such sp mod created, and does it really is impossible?

Ok, it's a lot of work. Fu***ng lot of work. So in point of fact I understand why there is no q3 sp, but I get once that idea which comes to me back every few months. As we know Rtcw source code went public ages ago, so why not take whole that part which is responsible for sp aspects of the game, and put it into q3 source code? I know nothing about programming (and I hate it btw ), so maybe my idea is simply absurd, but what you guys think? Is it possible? Would there be anybody interested in making such mod?

[cityy]

[...]why there was never such sp mod created, and does it really is impossible?[...]

I think 1 reason is the great multiplayer and another reason might be the huge amount of efford you would have to spend on this project since there is barely anything done. E.g. you don't have any scripts for sp bots and also no maps.

But tbh, I would love to see something like this!

[obsidian]

There are a number of id Tech 3 engine single player games out there (Return to Castle Wolfenstein, for instance). So if anyone wanted to create a single player mod, they would probably start with one of those instead of taking Quake 3 and rewriting a fair portion of the game code to shoehorn SP into a dedicated MP game.

It's completely do-able, but only after a fair amount of extra work (and isn't there also a Q3 total conversion SP mod out there already? I seem to recall there was one).

[D Scrama]

I think, it needs ONLY coding. Weapons is good after tweaking damage params, bot models is good for monsters, other media is very good too.
We need a good coder to see a good BASE for SP level making.

[v1l3]

Daniel "Fusion" Schneider made the Outpost Demo in 2003, and it pretty much showed that it can be done. I've played through it a couple of times, and it is was it is, but not perfected and has no saving capability which I don't even know if Q3 can do.

[ShadoW_86]

I think, it needs ONLY coding. Weapons is good after tweaking damage params, bot models is good for monsters, other media is very good too.
We need a good coder to see a good BASE for SP level making.

Exactly what I was thinkinking about!

[Hipshot]

I think, it needs ONLY coding. Weapons is good after tweaking damage params, bot models is good for monsters, other media is very good too.
We need a good coder to see a good BASE for SP level making.

Exactly what I was thinkinking about!

I say it's not even close to as easy...

[v1l3]

..I forgot to mention this..a couple guys in the past mentioned doing a single player, and I suggested remaking the Doom 1 Freeware version for Q3..since for one, there is a model for the imp(for a start) for Q3 and you have Lunarans Doom textures. It would take you mappers no time to remake those maps, and I can guarantee people would download it like hell...it would be no waste of time. You could also make it a standalone if you liked. Just a thought.

[Hipshot]

..I forgot to mention this..a couple guys in the past mentioned doing a single player, and I suggested remaking the Doom 1 Freeware version for Q3..since for one, there is a model for the imp(for a start) for Q3 and you have Lunarans Doom textures. It would take you mappers no time to remake those maps, and I can guarantee people would download it like hell...it would be no waste of time. You could also make it a standalone if you liked. Just a thought. :)

Again: I say it's not even close to as easy...

There's a lot of programming needed. You need Ai that you can script more, the bot's are too free roaming for this... And there are plenty more things, menu, music, etc...

And you need good mappers that understands how to make levels look modern alike using this engine, if it looks similar too the Outpost demo (Q3E 2003), it will just be very bad... Even if it looks like Iron Grip Warlords (Q3E 2008) it's bad. I say, if they increased the triangle count 50% and lit their levels less uniform they could make that game look so much better... it's easy to speak though =)

[ShadoW_86]

Again: I say it's not even close to as easy...

There's a lot of programming needed. You need Ai that you can script more, the bot's are too free roaming for this... And there are plenty more things, menu, music, etc...

And you need good mappers that understands how to make levels look modern alike using this engine, if it looks similar too the Outpost demo (Q3E 2003), it will just be very bad... Even if it looks like Iron Grip Warlords (Q3E 2008) it's bad. I say, if they increased the triangle count 50% and lit their levels less uniform they could make that game look so much better... it's easy to speak though =)

If it would be easy, where would be fun? But seriously, ofc you are right. But once again, would it be impossible to take Rtcw code and put it into q3, and I mean everything what is needed, menus, save/load system, even AI (change wolf models for q3's bots models)? I know nothing about coding for q3 engine, so I'm just asking, would it be possible?

Other thing is how the game looks, here comes a matter of personal tastes. For example, I don't care about 'moder' effects. I don't really need those ultra high, realistic enviroinments. To be honest there is hardly any modern good game, and the best example is last Wolfenstein. Very nice looking, but once you play it you never touch it again. And from the other side, there's new Sock level. Very old engine, but still great looking, and fun to play (even when it's not real sp!). I don't need anything more than q3 engine can provide.

I belive that there would be still some some ppl willing to work on the real sp q3 mod/episode. Of course we are talking about oldschool maniacs, but there is enough of em here . Just look at the q1 mapping scene, that game is older and uglier then dinosaurs, and still new sp maps are created for it!

[obsidian]

If you're going to port over everything from RTCW, you are actually better off just taking the Wolf game code and modify that to be "more Quake 3" instead of the other way around. Code often doesn't work with a straight copy/paste since the smallest differences breaks things.

Sock's map is cool, but you have to realize that everything works based on one giant hack, which is why he had problems with constantly running out of entities. If you look at his source map, you'll see a crazy network of entities in the background firing off the logic gates. This is not exactly ideal for true SP maps, you can imagine it as a giant Rube Goldberg machine.

Q1 has SP maps made still because it has SP built in. Q3 does not.

Anyway, those are some of the facts. If a group of people was really dedicated enough to modify something to create a new id Tech 3 SP game, it IS entirely possible, but not without a lot of work. The possibility of some people actually pulling that off is pretty slim. It requires a lot of people with a lot of hours and work and dedication. There are already a number of mods out there still searching for more people to help with their project and having difficulty finding any. Again, not impossible, just incredibly hard.

[sock]

I belive that there would be still some some ppl willing to work on the real sp q3 mod/episode. Of course we are talking about oldschool maniacs, but there is enough of em here . Just look at the q1 mapping scene, that game is older and uglier then dinosaurs, and still new sp maps are created for it!

As obsidian has said, I used a hack to create a SP experience and no single player map would ever do that normally because all of that 'logic' would be in code using special entities. The chance of getting a team together to create Q3 single project is close to zero because the most important person needed to actually get it working would be a coder. Very few exist in the current community that are interested anymore so it would better to move on to a proper SP engine.

If you really want to see what the workflow for a single player is like then try and create a small encounter for return to castle wolfenstein. Even that engine has its fault and you will curse the day you ever added enemy AI to your map and wonder why they don't work how you expect them to. There is a giant leap of complexity from MP to SP design with regards to mapping and I think that may surprise you as well.

Daniel "Fusion" Schneider made the Outpost Demo in 2003, and it pretty much showed that it can be done. I've played through it a couple of times, and it it was it is, but not perfected and has no saving capability which I don't even know if Q3 can do.

I have never heard of that before and I was curious enough to downloaded it. I instantly recognised the texture set! The game play was ok, it still felt too much like Q3. The map design was really basic and the layout felt very much like something from Q2. The AI just ran straight at you regardless of what was in their way and the commander at the end even shoots his own troops. I really did not like the D3 closet style AI spawn behind you thing. I am sure for its time it was very cool and a good effort considering how functionless Q3 really is outside of creating DM maps.