Fjo3tourney1 - ECP - Beta 5 - Updated 13.11

[Fjoggs]

Newest version is here:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=46638&p=886637#p886637

Following my own incompotence, I proudly present my most delayed map ever. 7 years after the first beta and 4 years after what I called the "final beta" I'm now releasing number 5. Hopefully, the last beta before I can call it final.

I've spent the last month cleaning up all the bad brushwork, fixing the structural design and optimizing the awful performance to what I'd call decent. Speeds peaks at 12-14k at one point, but I don't think it can be avoided. Considering it's not 2004 anymore, that shouldn't really be a problem.
Map is designed to work in both vQ3 and cpma, but as with most of my maps, I suggest you playing it in a promode environment for the full experience. There's a few jumps here and there that greatly increases moveability. (Is that a word? :P)
The map was originally covered in Lunarans mkoxide textures, but I included some of my own modified versions of it, including some more trims to make it look slightly different from the other maps using the same textureset. I also expanded the rock/metal theme from my original design, making it more of a sentral theme to the entire map.
.map file is included as usual for some laughs.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Download Link (OUTDATED FILE)

Screenshots:




For anyone on irc, I idle at a few channels, including #q3LEM and #maverickservers if you want to talk to me directly.
Hope you enjoy!

[deqer]

That looks really nice!

[EmeraldTiger]

I always liked the mkoxide set for reproducing the Q2 style while giving it an up-to-date feel. You pulled it off very well, and like you said it manages to have it's own look. I think it might be too yellow though. The only real contrast in color is the sky and gray cliff walls it seems. I`m not sure if it could be integrated at all, but maybe throw in a bit of red lighting for some variety? (i.e. the jail-door strip lighting and the tiny square light fixtures?)

The different areas also feel quite the same without anything that really makes them stand out. Maybe have some pistons / pumps in some of the walls, or a waterfall in the cliff face right next to the RL in your screenshot? (With sounds to boot, ofc) It will keep the theme consistent (at least imo) but will make it much more interesting.

The Mega Health seems to be missing a spawn marker.

Also, and you may have already got this tacked down but mentioning just in case - I would strongly suggest looking into your clipping and construction. The map seems very well put-together, and for the most part it is. But several of the higher areas remain unclipped, where players can rocket jump and then snipe to their heart`s content. Worse yet, I found out from using noclip and examining the .map file that you have a lot of caulked areas underneath your map. This seems like a temporary work-around for leaks. This is also possibly why you have such high r_speeds. While those underneath areas are mostly composed of caulk, the connections of those hidden areas span much of the map and it`s still drawing several rooms you might not want it to. I`m not an expert on this, it`s just a guess. Look into your brushwork - are you using detail brushes for things that are supposed to separate the map from the void? A detail brush does not block vis, so make any brushes that form the hull of your map structural. Anything like light trims, etc. can be left as they are.

It looks pretty neat, but it has some major issues which I`d highly recommend taking a closer gander at. It has great potential though and I would highly suggest contacting stahlaal at FragLove to see if he will add your map once it is finished, ofc. They're always looking for quality stuff, and this map would be a blast with humans for sure.

[themuffinman]

That Q2 waste theme is done brilliantly! The best attempt at it that I've seen in Q3. Takes me back to the good ol' days. Now you just need some hand grenades in there and you're good to go!

[Silicone_Milk]

dude... i totally remember this map from way back when. I remember the rock walls blowing me away.

[Fjoggs]

Deqer: Thank you all for the comment!

I always liked the mkoxide set for reproducing the Q2 style while giving it an up-to-date feel. You pulled it off very well, and like you said it manages to have it's own look. I think it might be too yellow though. The only real contrast in color is the sky and gray cliff walls it seems. I`m not sure if it could be integrated at all, but maybe throw in a bit of red lighting for some variety? (i.e. the jail-door strip lighting and the tiny square light fixtures?)

It is highly yellow indeed. :P I actually did have some red light fixtures at some point during the rework, but I didn't really like how it turned out. I might try a slightly less hard red though, and checking how the jail-doors strips would look with a different color. Good call.

The different areas also feel quite the same without anything that really makes them stand out. Maybe have some pistons / pumps in some of the walls, or a waterfall in the cliff face right next to the RL in your screenshot? (With sounds to boot, ofc) It will keep the theme consistent (at least imo) but will make it much more interesting.

Waterfall sounds pretty neat, and moving stuff is always good. I'll see what I can do.

The Mega Health seems to be missing a spawn marker.

This was actually intended, but it probably is a bit confusing when everything else has one, so I'll add a marker.

Also, and you may have already got this tacked down but mentioning just in case - I would strongly suggest looking into your clipping and construction. The map seems very well put-together, and for the most part it is. But several of the higher areas remain unclipped, where players can rocket jump and then snipe to their heart`s content. Worse yet, I found out from using noclip and examining the .map file that you have a lot of caulked areas underneath your map. This seems like a temporary work-around for leaks. This is also possibly why you have such high r_speeds. While those underneath areas are mostly composed of caulk, the connections of those hidden areas span much of the map and it`s still drawing several rooms you might not want it to. I`m not an expert on this, it`s just a guess. Look into your brushwork - are you using detail brushes for things that are supposed to separate the map from the void? A detail brush does not block vis, so make any brushes that form the hull of your map structural. Anything like light trims, etc. can be left as they are.

Everything you see is detail, I have a simple structural hull enclosing the map. If you check the .mapfile, simply Ctrl+d to hide the detailbrushes.
I'll fix up the clipping. Did it kinda late, and was a bit tired. Bad combination. :P
I'm a bit confused when you say that you found alot of caulked areas undearneath my map? All sides not visible to the player should be caulked, so that's a good thing.
High r_speeds only happen in certain spots where most of the map is visible, like from the MH room looking towards RA so I'm unsure if I can do anything about it.
I'm sure someone like Obsidian could improve on my hinting alot, but unless alot of people have low FPS I'll probably settle with this for now.
It's stable 125fps on my 3 year old computer.

It looks pretty neat, but it has some major issues which I`d highly recommend taking a closer gander at. It has great potential though and I would highly suggest contacting stahlaal at FragLove to see if he will add your map once it is finished, ofc. They're always looking for quality stuff, and this map would be a blast with humans for sure.

I appreciate your comments! Seeing it on fraglove when it's done would be nice.

Themuffinman:
Thanks. You'll have to live with the Grenade Launcher for now!

Silicone_Milk:
Hehe, yea, it's been around for ages now. Glad you liked it!

[Eraser]

Maybe not use red but white instead. It's close to yellow but perhaps still contrasting enough to break up the monotony.

[Fjoggs]

I tried swapping out the yellow jail-doortrim for a white version earlier actually, but it didn't really do it for me. White lightfixtures might be a better idea though. Thanks.

[obsidian]

You can also try just toning down the intensity of the yellow. For colour tests, try making a few screenshots and tweaking the colours in Photoshop, often easier than changing textures and shaders and recompiling.

[Fjoggs]

You can also try just toning down the intensity of the yellow. For colour tests, try making a few screenshots and tweaking the colours in Photoshop, often easier than changing textures and shaders and recompiling.

That's a good tip, thanks alot.

[v1l3]

I thought that that you were done with this thing. I still have the last release of it of course, but what happened to the very first release of it where it had a running water stream that went in a half of a circle on the edge of the center room?

[Fjoggs]

You have the "final beta"? Could you email me that? (fjoggis[at]gmail[dot]com) Can't find it anywhere on the net after my provider previous webhostingservice shut down.
That map was a different layout altogether, that I postponed for other projects. Eventually I released other tourneys before it and changed the number accordingly.
I stilll have it on my computer, safely named Fjo3tourney8.

[v1l3]

You have the "final beta"? Could you email me that?

I do and I will =)

[sock]

EDIT : Deleted

[EmeraldTiger]

I get a 404 when I click the link. (Well, it`s still your site but it redirects me to the sitemap)

[obsidian]

sock.

[sock]

.map file is included as usual for some laughs. Any feedback is appreciated.

Download Linky about 11Mb

Well I was curious and I did open the map file ... and changed a few things around for a laugh!

* Move YA down from crazy-hard-to-get platform in VQ3 (yeah I know I suck at circle jumping)
* moved shards and +5 health balls to side of corridors (so you can avoid them if you want)
* Deleted all previous light entities and targets (a couple of point lights)
* Created new blue light textures (PSD's in zip file if curious)
* Deleted all excessive light stripes on upper/lower/everywhere part of map
* Added light layers, blue at the top working down to gold for lower areas
* Changed skybox shader to new q3map2 format (much better shadows now)
* Added sunangle (you don't get amazing shadows at 90 degrees!)
* Purged crap from shader file (lots of shaders not used anymore)
* Added blue light textures to shader file (Mirrored yellow light values)
* Added decal marker for MH (I am not a great fan of its location, think it would be better in upper corner)
* Added rock wall to central area (the central area walls were looking too flat)
* Added upper outside rocks to corridor section (between RL/YA)
* Replaced weird cpm trick ramp (central area) with JP so VQ3 works better
* Added cpm style trick jump ramp in-front of GL platform
* Moved GL platform back 16 units so jump to health ball ledge is a little harder
* Fixed various trim errors (my editor does not use decimal point texture alignment)
* Setup blue light textures on architecture in middle area (sadly had to use some point lights)
* Fixed repetitive texture on all stairs (looked bad from above)
* Downgraded all stairs lights to alternative steps (looks less harsh on the eyes)
* Made sure all stairs have light fixture pattern (a couple did not)
* Moved intermission/spectator camera to RL room, was facing LG
* Merged a lot of stair brushwork that was cut up strangely

I think that is all the stuff I changed, it was fun to play with, thanks

EDIT: download link fixed, stupid ISP

[cityy]

sock picking it up like a boss.
Hoping to finally get a chance to try this today..

[Bliccer]

Pure sexiness by both of you guys.

[Fjoggs]

Amazing work sock. Can't thank you enough for doing something like that. It gave me some much needed inspiration and new ideas. Hard to get creative over something I've been staring at for 8 years. :P
I added alot of your ideas, especially the changes in the main room. I took your lightingtips and gave it my own twist.
Hopefully the lighting isn't annoying.
Thank you for the .psd files you included. I actually learned alot from it. I suck at texturecreation, which explains how I managed to make some of my panels and trims 2 pixels short of 128 units wide, so they don't scale properly on normal sized brushes.
I might fix that if I can be arsed to redo all the alignment that would have to be changed in my map.

I'm releasing a new version! Changelog, screenshots and downloadlink below. Original post not unaltered to show differences.

Download link.
Here
.bsp name is still Fjo3tourney1, so remove your old one.
QuakeLive Version

Changelog:
*Placed MH at SG. Moved SG to ledge above.
*Redid lighting with socks new blue theme and my own touch.
*Jumppad at MH has a higher destination, so you can airstrafe to the upper ledges.
*Rocks in the central area with jumppad and added two ramps for CPM trickjumps.
*Increased the size of the platform that YA was sitting on so sock can jump to it. :P
*Improved r_speeds. Maximum is 8.5k ish now.
*Added rampjumps near RL at RA.
*Changed texturenames for easier use.
*Improved the platforms so they're easier to use.
*New jumppad texture.
*New Lightfixture texture with a more defined edge.
*Improved clipping.
*QuakeLive Support

Todo:
*Rework the LG hallway.

Screenshots:

[fKd]

nice improvement with the lighting. nice atmosphere!

[Fjoggs]

I somehow managed to upload the wrong jumppad_sfx texture. Should be sorted out now. (It's supposed to be blue, not orange like in the screenshot. :P)

[mazk1985]

I played an earlier version of this about a week ago against a bot and it's got a very solid design and a nice simple layout that is fun to run laps round and has plenty of good vertical fighting.

The theme and design is spot on (great use of great textures) but suffered alot from all the yellow trim and lights. I also found the look of the map quite samey and got slightly confused at first. That all went away though when I downloaded the latest version. The blue lighting sock worked on (then remixed by you) coupled with the alternating stair lights and changed door trim texture all simultaneously polish the design to a high mirror sheen and completely remove the samey feeling it did have thus reducing confusion by a lot

Other than that the 2 RL's is a nice touch and they don't seem to dominate the map as much as I would've thought. The only minor criticisms I can say is that the elevators (except one near YA) and the RA platform/ground floor area are a bit small imo. Also I see your thinking of reworking the LG hallway. I found it less fun than the rest of the map but I can't quite pin down what it is. Maybe it's too long idk?

Fantastic job though. Well worth the 8 years it took to make. I would love to have a proper duel on this and hope one day to see it running on QL servers.

[Fjoggs]

Glad to hear you liked it mazk. You can already play it on CPMA servers (You can vote for vQ3 physics) if you want to play vs real people.
#cpmduel @quakenet is a pickupchannel for 1on1s where you can add or simply ask if anyone wants to try it.
It's up on these servers:
q3.keksfabrik.eu:30000;password keksfabrik
q3.keksfabrik.eu:30001;password keksfabrik

[praetorian]

I really like the map... the renewed feeling of an old design that it provides.
As it is the case with most of the maps I like, this one inspires me to start thinking what would be better about it, and what would I change, if I was the author?

So... here are some suggestions for you to consider, and maybe even make a change in your design, if you like them :

1. I have a feeling that you should add a one way teleport: Entrance would be in the main room, behind central 2 of 4 5+health bubbles, next to the GL. Exit would be on the bridge, dividing the RA room and RL room. ("The bridge" can be seen on the Sock's Procrastination screen, just over Hunter.
2. Under this bridge, I would like to suggest adding one more wall lamp, closer to the stairs. It would allow a player to (from a RL room) walk over three of these lamps (on the wall, actually), and not use an elevator to get to the RA.
3. On the upper floor of the biggest main room, there are more than a few columns/pilasters, with blue lamps, coming out of the walls. I think you should add a 45 angle player clip to them, to prevent players from getting stuck on them when they have "their back against the wall" in a fast fight.
4. I seem to have a strange need use 3 jumps and climb up the wall to the GL (on the opposite side of the Jump Pad in the central room). Do you get something like that? ... Strange
5. Maybe you could consider switching RG and LG positions ...(just a thought)
6. I have a strange feeling about the upper RL room, it seems to need something more, but I don't know what... I'll have to get back to you on this one. ... and there is a feeling of a too long corridor to the LG... but I don't have any other suggestions on that matter as well.

I hope my thoughts might turn out to be helpful ... at least a little.
They were in my head for a few days, so I needed to put them "on paper"

Thanks for reading
Keep up the good work

Cheers