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Topic Starter Topic: UPDATE! [Q3A] [2-4 FFA Tourney] oildm1 [BETA5]

Trainee
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Joined: 27 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 04-27-2007 10:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


EDIT: Made a few changes, mostly item placement and architecture

BETA5 - redesigned for 1v1 play.
- Removed center room
- Shrank the basement
- Added GL
- Changed RG position

BETA5
Image




Last edited by boilingoil on 07-30-2007 10:18 PM, edited 14 times in total.

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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 04-28-2007 08:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


needs a whole new additional level

looks fun now, but a little too small




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clueless
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PostPosted: 04-30-2007 04:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks good! Could maybe use some ammo, +25H or sth else on the lower level to attract players. The only reason to go there atm is to get the RL.

You could also try to make the basement more attractive by putting the exit of the tele there here so it's an easy way to get YA:

Image



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 04-30-2007 04:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's very easy to get it out of that tele, strafe jump! Same thing for the MH. I can do a double jump to that and to the RG.

I might make that a RA so it's more beneficial to strafe jump to it to keep the speed going.

I was thinking about making those healths down there large.



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clueless
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PostPosted: 04-30-2007 04:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I know you can get them easily by strafing, just thought the lower level could use some more attraction.

Making the health large may be a good idea. Maybe I'll find the time to test it against a human player in the next days. Do you have it runnung on a server?



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 04-30-2007 03:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


not at the moment. I've been out on the road and created this on my laptop. I could only wish sprint made an aircard fast enough to host a game! I'll be back to my desktop in the next 2 days and I'll put it up there. Is there a such thing as a place that rents out dedicated servers as if they were web servers?



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 05-01-2007 04:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


[POST LINK UPDATED]
BETA3 RELEASED!

Moved a things around a bit to attract attention to the top and bottom levels, leaving traffic on the middle level also. Trying to let item placement smooth out the flow of the map.



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 06-27-2007 12:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


BETA4 RELEASED!



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Last edited by boilingoil on 06-28-2007 02:24 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Veteran
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PostPosted: 06-27-2007 07:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A little late to the party since this is now final but some things to think about in future.

No readme in the pk, this is important for anyone who wants to know anything about the map.

You missed clipping the lone decorative pillar near the SG/glass and the one on the top level near Mega.

What does glass achieve? Players can't interact but have perfect information which would seem like it removed depth without adding anything.

Some areas like the RG corridor are too narrow, you can't dodge at all and both exits are coverable by someone outside it, if you want it to be a death trap that's fine but it'd be better with at least some wiggle room inside.

Why are the jumps to Mega and RA so long? How would a new player deal with your map? Every item should be accessible via +forward and jump, having other faster routes that require skill is fine but there needs to be a simple base route.

Think about the items more. The first item issue is the control items, as far as I can see the only armour items (bar a couple of shards) are Mega health and Red armour, both of which are on the top level. One guy is most likely going to gain control of both of those, as the losing player how are you supposed to come back against an enemy with 3 to 4 times as much health as you? What items or mechanisms in the layout are there to do this?

With major items it's good practice not only to seperate them by distance but also by 'position', meaning you must always give up the high ground or change position to get both.

You've put 2 50h bubbles very close to one another on the bottom level and a 50h on the top level - it's better to spread the health around a little more and use 50h bubbles only at important focal points to draw the player there. RG ammo very near the RG.

A spawn right next to the lower level teleporter is a slightly odd placement, the spawner has a freebie escape and it can be very disorienting to spawn, press a key and teleport instantly.

Clean up some of the surfaces - the floor near the mega has an annoying stepup trim and some ceilings have pointless overhangs that will catch people who've been bounced up or try to RJ.

Don't take all this criticism as disheartening, I'm giving it because I see a lot of potential in the level, the middle area is really nice and there's a lot of potentially exciting interaction between the levels. I think you should take this level back to alpha/beta work and polish it further.

If you're interested I'd be happy to help with tweaking the map.




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clueless
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PostPosted: 06-27-2007 11:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Some very good advice there, ix!

Listen to that guy, oil!



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Timed Out
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PostPosted: 06-27-2007 12:43 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think the way you've approached level building is similar to me and I dig that...
I think more work on visuals would be beneficial, in terms of a higher polycount and a more complex approach to non-essential areas i.e. the ceilings and some of the walls which could withstand more detailing. I like the clean look and you chose and nice textures, colours and lights.

Gameplay wise I'm screwed as I'm on my laptop which can't handle teh quaek at anything playable.




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Trainee
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PostPosted: 06-27-2007 09:49 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks for all the feedback!


BETA4

I have made a few changes, let me know what you think.

Put the readme in the pk instead of just in the zip file

I kina like the glass, yeah it gives you a way to see what's going on in the basement. I'll see what it's like without it when I release BETA5 (maybe i'll just clip the one in the room with stairs)

RG corridor is wider.

MH easier to access, and swapped the places of one of the slipgates and the RA. I also changed where it exits, making it take longer to get back to the other control item.

Ditched the 50H's in the basement, and made one a regular Health. Removed the one on the top level (should have put the RG ammo there now that i think of it...)

Moved the Basement Spawn so it's not in front of the slipgate

Added a little more space in the MH room



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Veteran
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PostPosted: 06-28-2007 10:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just noticed your decals seem to be on raised platforms rather than projected using a patch and a target entity.

Your modified version takes a number of steps in the right direction. Something to think about with the way you've made the mega more reachable - wouldn't it look more natural if the mega was reachable without a platform provided for that purpose? It looks very much like what it is, added to correct something.

Something else I noticed is that the PG is at the top of a bounce pad. It's best to make the taking of items optional and not on the beaten path.




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Trainee
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PostPosted: 06-29-2007 08:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


How do i properly display decals?

In this next version i release, I've come up with some ideas to change the theme so that it better fits the level's design. I'm going to switch to a more tech/industrial textureset, and do a little more detail, and change the look of some rooms (nothing drastic, mostly it will just look a bit different.

I don't have any shots yet but gimme 4 more days...



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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 06-29-2007 11:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You will need a shader with the polygonOffset directive.

You can manually place a brush or patch into the ground so that it lies flush with the floor. PolygonOffset will draw the texture above the floor even though it is coplanar.

As well, you can use the _decal entity to project the texture if the surface is non-planar (like stairs or something).




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Trainee
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PostPosted: 06-30-2007 09:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I haven't read the shader manual yet, but after seeing this post I just gotta :)

That polygonOffset thing is new to me, but i looked into the dsi_textures shader, and didn't see that word anywhere, I guess i'll use the _decal entity in my next release.



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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 06-30-2007 05:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You'll still need polygonOffset for use with the _decal entity otherwise you'll likely end up with z-fighting issues.




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Trainee
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PostPosted: 06-30-2007 07:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'd better start reading that manual then... 4 more days...



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 07-01-2007 03:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Been changing a few things, here's a picture update, not ready for beta5 release yet...

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image



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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 07-01-2007 05:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't quite like the red pipes. They look really out of place. Maybe change the colour to something much cooler, like grayish blue.




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Trainee
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PostPosted: 07-02-2007 07:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Oh don't worry, they aren't staying red. I just have to figure out how to make my own textures/shaders, and they'll be some kind of pipes that pump a bluish-white fluid to some machines (i'll even give em sound). There'll be some in the basement too (i'm completely redoing it). Those grey boxes (where the light is coming out of the pipes will be retextured also. 4 more days...



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 07-30-2007 10:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Made some changes, Took out those red pipes altogether. Tightened it up and moved some items around. Check it out.



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clueless
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PostPosted: 08-01-2007 02:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What about a JA @SG?

btw: You should maybe send tig at lvl a mail and ask him to remove your map from the final map queue.



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 08-01-2007 07:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


JA? I dunno what that is :D do you mean YA?

I've send an email through the site and from my inbox, maybe i'm sending it to the wrong place... you have the correct address?



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clueless
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PostPosted: 08-02-2007 02:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


boilingoil wrote:
JA? I dunno what that is :D do you mean YA?


No. JA = Jacket Armor, the green one in CPMA and OSP. Add the CPMA entities to Radiant, then you can add 'item->armor_jacket'.

boilingoil wrote:
I've send an email through the site and from my inbox, maybe i'm sending it to the wrong place... you have the correct address?


Send it to lvl@that-domain-were-talking-about.com.



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Lasery Roboty
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PostPosted: 08-06-2007 04:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


dichtfux: we usually refer to that as a Green Armor, or GA, seeing as how we don't call YA Combat Armor or the like, just FYI, sorry to go offtopic :D



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clueless
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PostPosted: 08-06-2007 10:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hehe, sorry for the confusion then. People I play with happen to call it JA, but that's because I play with friends on our server, and most of these guys happen to be mappers. Someone started calling it JA and this simply spread throughout our small server community it seems. I call it JA in in-game team messages, the readmes of my maps and forum posts, never thought about that. I'll try to adapt, at least for the latter. ;)



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 08-07-2007 06:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Where can I get this entity list? I tried to use google and I even looked on the Promode Discussion board, but alas, I have found nothing :tear:

Google brings me endless results about the Concrete Pump Makers Association. :olo:



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clueless
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PostPosted: 08-07-2007 08:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've had it once, but can't find it anywhere just like you.

You can simply place a YA and edit the entity name in the entity editor. Change it from 'item_armor_combat' to 'item_armor_jacket'.

Only a green cube will show up in Radiant, but it works in-game.



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Trainee
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PostPosted: 08-08-2007 05:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Cool. I found out that's the only entity that's new.



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Elite
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PostPosted: 08-31-2007 03:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Above the RA, opposite (to the left of) the teleporter there's a bit that looks looks like you can walk on it but you can't. I don't like bits like that in maps. Also those bits seem to prevent you from plasma climbing across the gap.

Some areas are a bit dark so you can't see where the floor meets the wall.




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Elite
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PostPosted: 09-01-2007 01:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've been playing it in OSP CQ3 mode and it needs more armour, cause you only start with 100 health in that. You'd probably have the same problem in CPMA, though they keep changing the weapon damage in that so I don't know.




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Trainee
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PostPosted: 09-22-2007 08:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ah, plasma climbing. That's what I like to hear.

This map has overgone a major overhaul since my last post. Some architectural, mostly cosmetic.
4 more days and i'll have some screeny goodness of the new beta.

In october I plan on starting a new map (maybe even completing it), so i'm going to start wrapping this one up after beta 6. Hopefully.



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Elite
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PostPosted: 09-26-2007 07:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The map needs more lighting throughout. Some areas are especially dark. Some areas are too dark to see the structure.

This part of the map for example, which leads down to the bouncepad, the r_gamma is 1.45 (as shown in the screenshot)
Image

The steps up to the Red Armour are simmilarly invisible.


You can forget what I said about CQ3 and CPMA before, I don't play CQ3 any more cause the MH timing is too in favour of the person who picked it up.

I read in this thread that someone sugggested more armour, though. Maybe it still could do with some more armour. (The 125 health only lasts 25 seconds before it goes down to 100.) I don't know really cause I haven't played it much in VQ3 yet. I'll play it now, I just wanted to post about the darkness first.

Edit: I played it in VQ3 and it doesn't seem to need any more armour, though there isn't really anywhere to put it (no space!). One armour and a MH seems a bit sparse, though. Well there is one space that could fit an armour but that seems quite nice empty.

It's a fun map but not one I'd want to play all the time cause running for the RA can become boring; it realy could do with another armour. - Alright I'm contradciting myself - It doesn't need more armour, just it would be more interesting, less boring, with another armour to balance things out a bit. I mean another armour to go for when you can't get the RA. The MH kind of acts as another armour but that's not really the same cause it's health not armour.

About the lighting. You have those strip lights in there (as textures), but you haven't really used them (as lights). You've put individual lights in the corners of them, but you need lights all along them. With those strip lights the place should be lit up all along where those lights are.

I don't know how many lights you'd need to put or anything, cause I'm not a mapper myself (yet :) ).

Edit2: The area where I said was empty was the SG area, my mistake, I didn't notice the SG was there, or the SG spawnpoint was there, a few times I was flying through there. An armour could go there, though, near the SG, like in ztn3tourney1 where there's a YA near the PG.

What I noticed just now, though (I might have noticed it before but forgot), is the SG spawnpoint is lit up from nowhere. There's no light texture anywhere just light shining on the SG spawnpoint from nowhere. A spot light.

You've got the same thing in the RL room with the RL lit up like that and two areas either side of it lit up from nowhere aswell.

You really need to tie the lighting in with the textures, like that it just looks amateurish.

Also the shadows from the sun by the MH and steps have aliasing (like steps) to them. I've seen this in maps before, but I've also seen maps that have avoided this, with smooth diagonal shadows.

I think you need to "bake" the map to prevent the shadows from having aliasing. I don't know.

There must be a way to prevent it from the shadows from aliasing, though, cause I've seen maps with the smooth diagonal shadows. In fact I've seen maps, and I think it was those same maps, with smooth, quite impressive, shadows.

Edit3: I've found out (from Obsidian) that it's not "baking" that does it; it's higher resolution lightmaps and lightmap filtering. Higher resolution lightmaps alone will only create smaller zig-zags, the lightmap filtering blurs it.




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Trainee
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PostPosted: 10-02-2007 10:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Wow man thanks! That's like the most feedback I've ever got at one time!

Yeah I really need to fix the lighting. It's way too dark.

I have added a green armor for cpma play. I've also done a bit more with the architecture and made it slightly more complex. I did it to make the lighting more realistic. I'm still working on the sky. I found a thread about sky shaders and how they make them look really smooth. The textures are boring me now, I plan on doing a complete texture set for this map. Something kinda future/industrial/science-y.

SOON! No screenshots yet, but it's worth the wait trust me.



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